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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
751
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Posted - 2014.09.30 08:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
yes, NPC switching targets in pvp encounters was a very bad change and should be reverted by CCP soon.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
752
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Posted - 2014.09.30 15:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
at least they ignored peoples feedback on the announced changes. I too, among others, voiced those exact concerns about pvp aspects of the game being severely affected - but noone listened, so it must've been intentional, or CCP make those feedback threads for troll or sheer politeness. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
753
|
Posted - 2014.09.30 20:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: The OP mention uncloaking so I assume he had to hunt his target and had the time to slowboat into point range. How damn long does it take to align an Ishtar out and warp? I know some people will run instantly when they see a neut/red in local but FFS if you can uncloak on your enemy, he was definitely not of the type to insta-run.
you didnt think about the chance he hasnt seen him on local yet? Believe me, I've missed millions of kills while slowboating toward the bear cloaked as he realized me in local and warped off. This is a common situation. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
755
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 06:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Yes - exactly, you want to make it easier to suicide gank mission runners, incursion runners, etc... by having them need to tank both the rats and the gankers.
why not? It would even make sense. Rats want incursion runner dead, so do the gankers.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
755
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Posted - 2014.10.01 09:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
whatever way you spin it, rats protecting the ratter is a dumb mechanic. Rats helping killing the ratter was actually the reason why you could kill them with a "cheesy ship" at all without bringing a gang with you or a roaming battleship/BC (lmao).
Its how I put it before in this thread, ratters enjoy this mechanic a lot because it obviously makes 0.0 a safer place for ratters since you need to bring a heavy, easy to catch/blob ship into lions hole (0.0).
Furthermore it is encouraging afk cloaky cyno play and gangs of blops in ratter systems instead of chill solo stealth bomber/recon roams. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
755
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 09:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maya Xadi wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:whatever way you spin it, rats protecting the ratter is a dumb mechanic. Lol. They are not protecting ratters, they just want to kill both instead.
Ganker warps in, puts a point on the bear, rats go berserk on the ganker. I would say they effectively ARE protecting the ratter. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
755
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 10:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maya Xadi wrote: Well, it's quite common thing to kill weak ships first.
from the gameplay perspective, rats are protecting the ratter. you may invent some silly reason why rats would want to kill a weaker ship which is not threatening them at all but it still is what it is. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 13:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Obviously, I completely agree that rats helping ratters is a stupid mechanic, which option do you think is the best way to fix it? I am going to assume that CCP have "reasons" not to give us better NPC AI.
maybe rats shouldn't engage players who apply ewar to someone with aggro to the NPC just for that? Take assisting actions into equation somehow, for example a rule like "engage players who assist player with NPC aggro" (by remote reps, shield transfer, cap transfer etc.). |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 15:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
question is not why they attack a solo player but why they switch target resulting in such a stupid behavior as when rats basically start protecting the ratter.
You cant explain it by roleplay, you cant it by gameplay perspective either this mechanic does make sense from neither position.
By pretending all players are equal for rats you just confirm how dumb the current implementation of rat aggro really is. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 15:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
well then CCP should change it, because pre-Retribution the AI wasnt that dumb and didnt spoil ratter kills so much - this is the whole subject of this topic. If everyone is equal, as you say, and NPC dumb as you say, they could as well stay on target they were already shooting all time. |
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 15:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: It's not that it was not dumb, it was only never changing target at all no matter the situation. Now the rats check what is on field and choose a target based on that.
wait a second.. so suddenly they arent dumb anymore as others were telling the whole thread long?
Frostys Virpio wrote: A stealth bomber is an easy kill so they go for it when there is one on grid. Why would they keep shooting at a target which has been succesfull in tanking all their damage for what probably amount to a few minutes without breaking?
why would they try to kill a new guy, who might be helping them to break the battleship who slaughtered them for hours?
Frostys Virpio wrote:Might as well try to kill the new guy who just arrived, maybe they will finally destroy something. You want them to continue doing something that didn't work for a few minutes in the hope that a capsuler might help them when the vast majority of capsulers prefer to kill them. I wonder how "dumb" this is... I too rush to break something unrelated after failing on my true goal. very smart indeed.
btw. this isnt primarily about the lore but rather about the gameplay mechanics. Rats spoiling player kills arent right and bring too much safety into 0.0. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 15:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote: With that said, an argument can be made that game balance is better achieved by having rats attack the PVPer, thereby promoting players to feel a bit safer to PVE which ultimately leads to more content on a non-solo scale. It's not an argument I'd agree with, but it is one I guess.
well, you're right. its a content on non-solo scale but for gangs of blops, who's planting afk-cloaking fishing cynos everywhere. Your pick whether you wish a solo roaming bomber or a cyno ship roaming or even afking in your local forever.
Since it got too hard to break a ratter solo due to silly rat aggro mechanics, cyno play and hotdrops are promoted a lot more than anything else, which sucks for both sides. I enjoy a solo roaming more than jumping 25 Blops on a raven, on ratters part dealing with a single bomber is for sure more promising than dealing with 25 blops or even 25 bridged bombers. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 16:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: They are dumb in that they don't distinguish between friend and foe. that's why your standings to them dont matter, they KOS everyone. They are not dumb to the extent that they focus on targets they can kill. They don't care if someone is there to "help" or "hurt" them, they just pick the easiest or most dangerous target or whatever. There is no reason to make it easier to suicide gank people running missions...."allying" with the rats is not a mechanic the game is designed around....to do it and keep balance you would need to buff CONCORD response times...and I'm sure that would get a whole lot of love.
ah ok, so in other words, they are just dumb enough to support your reasoning in matter but not too dumb that this whole lore argument would get nuked. GOT IT ;)
Like I said, its not about the lore but rather gameplay reasons. Having rats protecting the ratter makes ratting backwaters too secure from intruders (aside of cyno drops ofc). |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
|
Posted - 2014.10.01 16:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: They don't protect him, they re-asses the situation and decide they might as well kill the frig before they most likely all die.
I thought we were already done with this. 1) It doesnt make sense even in lore 2) this thread is not about lore. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
759
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 06:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: You want it to go back to the unbalanced way it was before because that was easy and it is what you are used to.
yes, I want to go back on old rat AI.
Donnachadh wrote: You want to warp into an area filled with rats that hate everything and shoot everything, and yet you want them to leave you alone. Etc. Etc. Etc. And you want this simply because it makes your gank attempts easier since you can ignore the rats.
yes. this was beetter. rats protecting the ratter ist most idiotic mechanic ever.
Donnachadh wrote: NO way in ....... The system was broken before, CCP took a step towards balance and now you cry rivers of tears because of it.
the system is now more broken than before, like I explained already.
Donnachadh wrote: So follow the comments you gankers pile onto those you gank, adapt or get the hell out of the game.
what? You mean I cant post on forums and complain about bad mechanics? You're wrong.
Zan Shiro wrote: it worked in wh's for years and ccp just reapplied it to rest of eve. And oddly enough we never heard wh pvp'ers complaing about it. They want the kills bad enough they adapt and do what it takes. Lesson to be learned from that.
oh, then, you want no local too I assume? Bebecause there is no local in WH. Or sleepers? You want sleepers in K-space? Because they are fine in WH. No? Then stop using WH as argument for anything. |
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